Category Archives: Society

Christianity as an Epic Cycle

The later Greeks told stories about the Mycenaeans who preceded them, like the poet Homer’s Iliad and Odyssey. In the eyes of the later Greeks, the Mycenaeans were larger than life. One reason for this belief comes from the ruins of the Mycenaean city-states. The walls around these palaces are massive, made from blocks of stone weighing several tons and carried to the mountain-top settlements. The later Greeks called these walls cyclopean walls, named after the one-eyed giant race, because the later Greeks felt only giants could move the stones. A walled mountain or hilltop settlement is called a citadel.

The Theogeny/Illiad is an Epic of the [Mycanean]( empire and the Fall of the Bronze Age.

Immediately after finishing the Georgics, Virgil began his masterwork, the Aeneid. He was fortunate enough to enter the good graces of Augustus, and, in part, the Aeneid serves to legitimize Augustus’s reign.

Vergil’s [Anneaid]( was an Epic for the justification of Rome continuing it’s rule.

Is Christianity nothing more than an epic creation itself?. A lot that would make up that cycle was actively suppressed during Rome’s decline. I like to believe this was a period of intellectual decline* in general [this is just before the Dark Ages mind you]. **Domitian** [~80 AD] declared philosophy free zones, and Christianity/paganism in general was persecuted by the Roman Empire. The trend of declining intellectual reason was being met with the desire to control. Indeed, [Sophism’s]( negative connotation is tied to the fact that in ancient times, only the rich were educated, therefore well spoken. Athenian democracy opened up the forum for everyone to be an orator, to influence others by words. Socrates took this up and opened up Philosophy to the wretches because information in the hands of the few [in power] leads to oligarchy. Hellenized Greece created this environment of persuasive speakers.

*[As to this matter of faith] I have to reply that we accept it as useful for the multitude, and that we admittedly teach those who cannot abandon everything and pursue a study of rational argument to believe without thinking out their reasons.
– Origen, Contra Celsum (~185 AD)

Two sources [for this idea]:

The earliest Greek philosophers (e.g., Thales, Anaximander, Democritus, etc.), had focused primarily on developing accounts of physical reality, asking “Of what is the world made?” However, social and political unrest demanded that philosophers move beyond the merely physical questions (i.e., questions about substance) in order to address spiritual and ethical issues. The traditional Greek religion, with its accompanying supernatural explanations for the phenomenal world, were being questioned. Likewise, traditional laws were being questioned (see Rogers, 1923, p. 45). As all citizens in Athens had the opportunity to participate directly as legislators, those who wanted to advance in politics desired special training in rhetoric for the purpose of learning to persuade audiences in the legal/political realm. The Sophists occupied themselves as teachers of rhetoric, among other topics.

[Sophists, primarily paraphrasing PhD Philosophy Prof: K Rogers](

First, Lewis thought, the Aeneid proved that Virgil’s form of Roman paganism was a whole and comprehensive religion, legitimate in itself, and therefore equal to Christianity in its scope and strength. After all, Lewis reasoned—a bit cynical from the shallow pieties imposed upon him by his schooling—“In the midst of a thousand such religions” stood Christianity, assumed by many to be “true.” In reality, he thought, Christianity was merely the “thousand and first” religion.

[CS Lewis on the Aeneid and Christianity](

Both quotes above are Christian sourced, and ironically, never fully consider if Christianity itself isn’t continuing an epic cycle, one of Judeo myth instead of Trojan myth. It’s hilarious that Christianity is purported as “true” by Lewis as he denies it is an epic myth itself. What is important to note here, is CS Lewis also did not have the vantage point of knowing the full extent of Gnostic documents that the [Nag Hamadi]( unearthed that exposes more of this proposed *epic cycle*

What I’m thinking is… That Christianity was nothing more than **[Greco-roman sophist epic cycle drama](** *unfolding during the decline of the Roman Empire* in Anatolia (Asia Minor) via Gnostic Gospels. It’s posited Homer wrote the Illiad from here, early Philosophical ideas are also from here (ex. Thales to Pythagoras are from Asia Minor, Paul the Apostle, The Essenes). An alternative theory (can’t find source 🙁 ), is it was Athens that propagated the gnostic gospels to offset the rise of Judaism. Marcion of Sinope would be a central figure in this theory, as his bible was the 1st bible that excluded the Old Testament for his belief in [Sophia]( and Gnosticism.

The theory purports that Gnosticism was a rise against Judaism possibly by Jews themselves (but it could have easily been Athens and Rome), but I only focus on the fact that Gnosticsm was driving a wedge between Christianity and Judaism; point being that Anatolia ideas were mixing violently.

Christianity and the Roman Empire were virtually at war with each other, it is during this war that [Athenian/Anatolian] Philosophy was being impregnated into Christianity [& Gnosticism] (Gospels are all Greek and written in Asia Minor), Rome persecuting and crucifying Christians, and Christians defiling Roman temples. Gnosticsm was eventually schismed *away* from Christianity when the [Marcion]( version of Christianity was put down with Constantine. When the [East] Roman Empire adopted Orthodox, [East] Rome turned the persecution against the [Greek] Gnostics (I should note the term Gnostics has been used Pre Christianity by Plotinus to mean Anatolia pagans). It is important for Rome to adopt Christianity, because Rome [and Greece] remember a set of [Philosophical] beliefs that preceded Christianity and has no reason to accept it’s legitimacy. [East] Rome can now bring followers of Christ under an authoritarian literalist interpretation and bring a wide range of ideas under control, therefore squashing the once rising Christian rebellion. Let the book burnings and Dark Ages begin.

This is where the Schism occurs away from Gnosticsm. Gnosticism was trying to offset Judaism, where as Constantine was trying to Epic build off of it. In the process, they got the documents they needed in line with a philosophical point of view that they found commonality in. Ultimately creating a **philosophical myth inspired legend**, nothing more different than modern day [comic book ethos]( Either way, what we end up with is a East Byzantine Empire based on Orthodox [Greek] Christianity. It would appear that Greek influenced ideas win over Roman ones in terms of pre East-West schisms as the Roman Empire experienced a collapse/split into an East [Greek non Latin] Rome, carrying Greek thought forward (but not for long w the Crusades, which creates the East-West Schism and divorces Latin Christianity from Greek Christianity).

> We must persuade our citizens that the gods are the lords and rulers of all things and what is done, is done by their will and authority: and they are the great benefactors of men, and know who everyone is, and what he does, and what sins he commits, and what he intends to do, and with what piety he fulfills his religious duties.
–Cicero, “The Law” 2:15,16


Is this how religions get started? Documents alluding to past legends mixed in with philosophical viewpoints taken from the time which make up legends and part of an evolving “cycle”.

Apparently the book, [Paradise Lost]( is a form of Epic using Christianity as it’s base.

If what I’m thinking is true, it would explain why we have no historical record other than testimony for the historicity of Jesus. Thinking of it in light of the Trojan War and Achilles. We can ask ourselves is Achilles a real person? Or was he a plot device where other real names were weaved in with myth. The more I consider this, the more it makes sense. It would explain why we have people quote Jesus but no physical records of his existence. I’m not sure what physical records we would expect. I would suspect a house, an address, taxes paid, something of that sort. Log entries in schools, etc. However, what we have are people quoting his [claimed] deeds ([Flavius](, Cornelius). Just like people quoted Achilles deeds as if it were part of history. Of course we have a much smaller timeframe for an epic cycle to develop; what we do have is conflicting gospels popping into existence, and another [saviour]( like figure existing at the same time, as well as other state religions trying to be created at this time.

Oh Asia Minor, how I do love your wiley ways. I think the best way to map something like this, is to create a timemap of ideas (gospels in this case) and put a date, name, and birthplace of the idea. Instead of trying to chart the area of influence the idea has over a period of time, one could create a hierarchy of idea dependencies using the dates and locations to help get a reference of how far the ideas dispersed and evolved from each other. One has to assume author’s adopt pen names when they write and may not be the person they are pretending to write about, also, we cannot assume that documents have been left unaltered as they have been passed down throughout time, both part of the [tradition]( of the epic cycle. Some wonder how much Homer had added to the Trojan War with his Illiad than was factual, since the Illiad was written hundreds of years after the war itself. Yet, the words he wrote were pretty much held as fact by Alexander the Great, Xerxes, Augustus, and Sultan Mehmet II when it came to Troy.

First Citizen, Rome, Alexander the Great, Divine Providence, Foundation Myths

Divine Providence, Manifest Destiny, National Sovereignty

stem from Rome’s “1st Citizen” Doctrine

which has roots in the story of Troy and how supposedly Rome was founded by Aeneas, a Trojan prince fleeing Troy. Penned by Vergil in the Epic Poem the “Aeneid” penned between 29 and 19 BC.

Concept was, the founding of the nation of Rome by Aeneas was used as a backplot to Octavian/Augstus claiming divine ruling authority over Rome when Rome transitioned from a Republic to an Imperial form of government.

Very similar to a modern day saint creation story. A spin on deifying a patron or ruling authority. Creating a myth to justify one’s rule (sounds a lot like China, North Korea, Japan). Creating gospels to back it up. Athens had an issue where Alexander the Great proclaimed himself a deity as well.

What gets more interesting… is how the Trojan War [Epic Cycle] was used as a basis for various nations to war against each other. Persia, Alexander the Great, even the fall of Constantinople, and the founding of Rome have ideas based around the legends and myths that are passed down for generations and treated as gospel. Myths can be and are used to justify and shape actions. Very similar to how Islam and Israel split off from each other from common roots. Myths and legends are used to create schisms and people act on them. It might have been unintentional, but the stories bring on a culture of their own.

What’s sad about this though… is the gospel, or epic, Aeneid… was written and used to justify ones [Augustus] rule so quickly. There was no time for the story to develop. It was mainly acted upon. Almost to create a movement. Sounds like many modern day offshoots of practicing religions.

Rome, Greece, Christianity, Republic, Democracy and Today

Today I learned that the Roman Republic lasted for ~500 years up to Julius Caesar who introduced the concept of Imperator’s (which apparently is a natural consequence of a Republic, lack of cohesion due to a lack of a governing authorative figure, aka executive). Which ironically is around the same time frame of Christianity. ~46 BC

So Rome had coevolved a system of Republic that Greek had practiced, city states working in unison. Tbh, I’ve heard of many such city states, to include the Phoenicians. However, Rome had a Senate. I believe other Greek city states practiced various forms of non Democratic governments, but some governments did practice Democracy (Athens) and Sparta had a form of Democracy as well for the privileged citizens. I don’t believe Greece had practicing Senator’s.

Fast forward to Caesar…Imperator’s ruled as an executive authority over the Republic, eventually the Roman empire fell a few hundred years later; however, the East survived until the fall of Constantinople and their Emperor Constantine the XI in 1458, just prior to Spain’s expulsion of Islam from Spain which happened just before Columbus crossed the Ocean and started the colonies.

Christianity has this relationship with the Roman Republic. It was there at the birth of it’s shift from a Republic to an Empire, and was the only enemy of the Easy Byzantine’s empire enemy, the Ottoman’s. However, did not come to it’s help.

Some would argue that the United States revived some belief in the Roman Republic and Greek Athenian Democracies. However… I think history tends to get groups to convene and come to agree on things and guide a group’s decision for it’s continued well being. Native American’s have done so, and so has England with their merchants and House of Commons. The House of Lords resembles our Senate, and if you put it into perspective at how they become pushovers when an Imperator comes around… It’s just bureaucratic upper class playing with the system/status quo.

Looking back, it’s like a giant interwoven tapestry the United States shares by trying to revive certain forms of a government that our pilgrims share a history with themselves. I know it’s a stretch, but Rome/Greek Republic/Democracy dies but continues around the birth of Christianity in Empire form.

Fast forward to the fall of the Byzantine empire, you have Spain setting out new colonies and the pilgrims start pouring in from Europe. As the pilgrims escape across the Atlantic, they do so on the curtails of the end of the Byzantine Empire, of which Spain shares a common enemy with, the Turks. However, Spain and the Byzantine Empire were not friends from apparently and from what I’ve read, no one in the West cared about it’s fall.

The reason for this is because the schisms within Christianity, which ultimately lead to [Catholic] Spain not caring about [Orthodox] Constaninople’s fall. The split was concrete in 1204 during the 4th Crusade when Constantinople was sacked and it’s Senate never reconvened, the death of the great Roman Senate.

So at the fall of the Byzantine’s, you get [Christian] Spanish and European migrants heading to the America’s with their Roman [Catholic] ideas.

Ironic… The Roman Empire has carried Christianity, and Christianity carried elements of the Roman Empire and reestablished it in some current form…


Aristotle, Boltzman Brain, the Soul, Gaea, Wisdom of the Crowd, and the meaning of life

I think Socrates, Plato, & Aristotle were so ahead of their time… and only because they were a product of their wonderful environment.  I think [they\]he [post primarily] Aristotle was a product of a “Wisdom of the Crowd” society. He knew it, and took advantage of it and sought to transform future knowledge while penning his work surveying all of prior known philosophy and other sciences as well.

It’s terrifying that his knowledge was marginalized for such a long time.

Boltzmann Brain machine/Anthropic Principle

I do not believe that we are disembodied heads, but I sometimes think the Universe is a memory generating machine. Like the universe is a Boltzmann brain generator.  I say this because we are here and able to figure out where we come from.  Aristotle asked how this state of equilibrium of constantly acting/reacting energy was in perpetual motion with his Four Causes.

Richard Dawkins holds that Anthropic Principle is flawed because it has selection bias.  However, his theory relies on a multiverse where multiple dimensions exist.  Which in theory is shown to work on math; but then again, in theory it’s shown that we are a simulation due to it to bit (if indeed matter can be continuously broken down, or if quantum computers can guess the state of quantum q bits we don’t need to go below quantum level).

In honesty, some can argue that “it to bit” is not true, for matter breaks down continuously it seems. HOWEVER… I do counter that we can use [probability] point estimation [calculus] to derive probability of 1/0 for simulations that model these affects.

Those simplified descriptions break down on the QUANTUM level, but we already have computers that address this


What’s interesting, is it’s thought that can create final causation it seems. Intent if you will. Scientists have always tried to separate final cause and efficient cause but have settled that final cause (temporal) is the realm of metaphysics while efficient cause (observable) is the work of physics (ref:

However, I was thinking how in the presence of conscious thought. We can manipulate our surroundings. We can set final cause. We can impart, imbue, and discover order from the chaos around us due to our nature given abilities to reason.

Once conscious thought is absent. Those surroundings continue on the last trajectory we set them on [as modified by science until entropy wears it down].

Following that same type of logic. If science is the efficient causation of the universe. It could be argued that the final cause [intent] of the universe is the creation of a Boltzmann Brain machine.

That’s where this concept of a simulation comes into mind.  I’ve seen how simulations are ran at my former work at Boeing.  Thousands of them are ran at a time to see if a desired result holds true in some difficult physics related problem.  These big 12 core computers with 74GB of Ram and Dual SSD’s would crunch for 24 hours just to test a plane’s capability under a certain condition.  There’s your multiverse right there.

The desire to create conscious thought so those inside the machine can become aware of who/what they are and how they came to be.

I believe though. That our True Form is most likely intelligent thought. I believe this True Form exists in a temporal eternal state that we can all identify with as ourselves having. I personally think that thought is the Final Cause of the flux of the universe. I believe the final cause equates to intent, and intent equates to intelligent thought.

I don’t know if that means we are eternal, or just the concept of intelligent thought is a true form that visits reality (the universe) in the form of material life.

I think once we discover how to create a Boltzmann brain machine to help humanity better understand itself, the machine will give us answers we’ve never even dreamed of.

Was this Aristotle’s intent?

No… at the very minimum I think he [Aristotle] was trying to answer the cause and effect question. Which lead him to think of an incorporal initial mover (edit: actually it has been said that he believed the continuation of flux was the agent of the final cause, not necessarily from an initial state, for an initial state caused confusion with the theory of a never ending universe) who does not move, but merely thinks and this causes movement in the Universe. In fact it was required that the “being” in question was incorporal. Also that this being was nothing more than “thought”. To attribute thought to something of the 1st mover means he was attributing a sense of intelligence to the 1st mover.

Aristotle did not propose that this God interacted outside of merely thinking of itself. The thinking of this 1st mover leads to the final cause of the state of flux we live in. Flux being the flow of energy throughout the universe.

Which is pretty deep. For Aristotle ties in thought with divinity. I’ve always liked to say we are all thoughts of God, I only say that because we are each consciously aware. To see a great mind like Aristotle kind of hint that thought is possibly what the 1st mover is… kind of makes me do a double take.

Ultimately this theory I believe comes from Socrates and the True Form and what is the True Good when asked how it is we know anything, and he gives the story of the Allegory of the Cave and what types of forms we witness are not really the True Forms; however he was most likely speaking about an understanding of how we should see the world to discover these true forms in the forms of math and science; hence Philosophy as far as I’m concerned started.

Consider this quoted by Plato

Plato believed that everything in nature that is tangible flows, so there are no substances that do not dissolve, and all that belongs to the material world is

made of a material that time can erode. Nevertheless everything is made after a timeless mould or form that is eternal and immutable.” Essentially everything physical will erode but the original idea is eternal and will always be.

Wisdom of the Crowd
I think the concepts put forth in Wisdom of the Crowd is like a type of computer simulation using society as it’s components to filter for the best possible answers. It’s crowd-sourcing at it’s finest.  It also carries with it a hint of Integral Approximation, which is found in Modern Day calculus.  Trying to derive the curve of an unknown function.  Something we try to do today with Artificial Neural Networks.  Greece’s ANN was society.

It would be nice if we could use the concept of the 4 causes and the 1st mover in some sort of ANN.

I think such an intelligent machine could use Determinism to apply a reverse simulation to the universe to help us with history. That would be a stretch. It can be argued that present day moments in time are the efficient affect of the moment before. Take 1 + 2 = 3 as pieces in time that just so happen to add up; which is irrelevant, I’m comparing them on a class level. Same as A + B = C.

We have C, and we know what combinations can make up a classification of C (similar to types of forms and how evens and odds are forms of numbers, 2 can be an even but not an odd, prime numbers are another type of form). We cannot derive the additive parts of A and B given C. However, using algebra, it’s possible to supply integral approximated substitutions using the concept of proportions and known historical events to extrapolate to some precision missing factors that may substitute for A and B. It may be possible to use Quantum Computers to simulate every possible state of A and B and to derive their approximated sum together. Like the adding of two probabilities.

Proportions, Ratio’s, and Equilibrium

The idea of causality starts with proportions. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. This is what Aristotle was talking about with a state of flux we are in. Newton hit on it again when he discovered Gravity. That’s where this final cause of the prime mover comes in. If we are in a state of constant motion, and we can see motion begets motion. How did the motion start, or at least perpetuate itself to be continuously moving?

So the law of proportions seemed to help people figure out how the universe works. ex… If I have a glass full on one side and I pour it into another, it has to remove liquid from the glass I just poured it from. I think Ancient Greek’s (Aristotle) figured the equilibrium was constant. For every action there was an equal and opposite reaction. I think Newton figured this out as well. However, their is Entropy. But that’s not the point. The point is, this basic understanding of causation and effect of energy change led to the question of where did the change come from?

I think mathematical ratio’s that equate to solutions such as Pi offer one way to see the True Form of something.  Many laws of science are based on proportional math.  Such as the volume of gas in a room, or theories dealing with electricity, and current. But we don’t see it perse, but we understand it in it’s abstract form using empirical/observable form, or by deriving integrals and probability functions, aka “it for bit” we calculate how the universe operates.

Therefore we can identify what the True Form of something is. It is arguable what constitutes True Forms (I’m not that good with Plato). I could argue math forms, and then forms that belong to taxonomy’s of nature, and then various forms of scientific laws. Some would argue that the scientific laws are eternal and temporal, but are forms of animals, or life?

That is why the allegory of the cave and Forms works so well when it was proffered of Plato how it is that we know what true knowledge is?

It was if Plato saw the matrix for what it was and mentioned how we are as if inside a cave, trying to guess as to what it is we see, we can only approximate in mimicked forms, but we understand and recognize a true form; mathematics.  Based on this we can understand our surroundings more.  We can identify causation.  We can identify the True Good.  Aristotle follows this up with the 4th Cause, Final Cause and the Prime Mover.

Immortality of the Human Soul:
This ties in with what Sebes and Socrates were speaking of. The immutability of the human soul. How the human soul, I think therefore I am, I have thought. Is alive. If we are alive, we are not dead. We are said to have thought. If we are even, we are not odd.

Take that a step further, when our physical form separates from our conscious form, our conscious form is still the same type it has always been. For what is even cannot become odd, it will refuse it.

So that is how Socrates philosophied the eternality of the human soul.


Immortal and eternal aren’t necessarily the same. Plato will argue that the soul is immortal because it is its own source of movement. And Aristotle goes on a great length to establish that the prime mover isn’t like the soul.

but Aristotle goes on to say the prime mover is like thought, and it only thinks of itself, this occurrence of thought is the final cause of the movement of the universe and why it is in flux. I equate this final flux with the meta-physical concept of types of forms. Say for example, the flux is the Grand Unified Theory or something. Well, that would be the Flux, or the True Form I guess of the universe, and it’s movement of energy and interactions of laws equates to The True Form thinking of itself. It’s like a Greek Gaea theory.

Plato draws the connection between thought and the soul.

I did not find their views in conflict with each other tbh. I’d love to hear what portion you speak of about Aristotle and the prime mover is not like the soul.

Corroborating Quote

internal linkTime according to Bergson and Teilhard. Bergson and Teilhard place the direction of internal linkevolution over that of entropy . According to Bergson, “all our analyses teach us that life is an effort to climb the slope that matter descends.” Teilhard measures the duration of evolution by the series of transformations that lead matter, life, and society toward states of higher complexity. “We are already prepared to observe that life, taken in its entirety, manifests itself as a current opposed to entropy. …Life, contrary to the leveling play of entropy, is the methodical construction of an organization that ceaselessly grows bigger in the most improbable way.” For Teilhard space-time takes the shape of a cone: the point of the cone is the outcome of cosmogenesis; god is Omega, the end.

Is the Earth a Computer?

Is Math a sign of a higher intelligence?

Is God a Mathematician?
this has interesting implications. I’ve read that Aristotle believed that through the act of thought, the Prime Mover caused movement through attraction to itself, but did not move itself. This video talks about superstrings that resonate musical frequency that represent the thoughts of God.

My stackexchange articles on the subjects

It seems to me that Aristotle Philosophy discovered evolutionary thought before Darwin.
Supported here with his theory on an evolving constitution.


Best supporting expansive article on the subject “Now it get’s really weird”:

Another great article discussing the number patterns discovered in pi and some other math numbers… it’s been pointed out it might just be confirmation bias. I don’t see an overall thesis as to his theory on it.

Are we in a simulation, claim with supporting evidence:

It is not anywhere in another thing, as in an animal, or in earth, or in heaven, or in anything else, but itself by itself with itself,” (211b). And in the Timaeus Plato writes: “Since these things are so, we must agree that that which keeps its own form unchangingly, which has not been brought into being and is not destroyed, which neither receives into itself anything else from anywhere else, nor itself enters into anything anywhere, is one thing,” (52a, emphasis added).

I swear, this stuff is like gold. Socrates proposed a form of government required philosopher’s and philosopher kings (I believe it is philosophy that is the precursor to true knowledge). A prerequisite to becoming a philosopher understanding the Theory of Forms. Imagine Plato is referring to a concept like pi. It is something magnificient to behold once you discover a pattern emerges with a typical calculation and represented by this number. Like a magic number of math in a computer program.

– Plato

Ramifications of Alexander the Great having been poisoned

Alexander the Great was the greatest military commander and would be King/Ruler of what could have been the Golden Age of Greece under the tutelage, guidance, and direction of Aristotle.

Unfortunately, his life was cut short at the age of 32.

Recent discoveries in science have suggested it was highly plausible he was poisoned.

So I started to ask myself. How would the world be today if Greece had lasted say another 500 years under the guidance of Alexander the Great? Would we have skipped the dark ages?

For one, I wouldn’t be around to contemplate it. However, to know that a lot of Aristotle’s work wasn’t even rediscovered until around 1000 AD has me thinking we got set back 1500 years.